Natasha Sistrunk Robinson is author of Mentor for Life: Finding Purpose Through Intentional Discipleship and founder of the nonprofit, Leadership LINKS, Inc. She is passionate about discipleship and developing future leaders who will positively impact their culture and communities. Sistrunk, a graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy and a former Marine Corps officer, also writes about racial reconciliation.
What is your passion and calling? You seem to be involved in many things.
I look at how God has gifted me, how He has positioned me, and then the giftedness in how He’s designed me. So the design is that I am Black, I am female, I am from South Carolina, and there’s a lot that goes with that. A lot of good and some bad is associated with that. Then I think the placement is—having started off in Christian environments and having been exposed to various Christian environments, [in] what some people would call progressive or liberal and that some would call very conservative. I’ve just been exposed to different things and I feel like my faith is richer and my relationship with the Lord is deeper because I’ve been able to witness and experience and journey with people across the Christian faith and tradition in that way. So when you ask about my calling and my purpose, I think it’s very clear, you know, it’s leadership. That’s what I’ve always done. I’ve known that from the time I was a little child. It’s not something that I was striving for [or] thought out, it was a very natural part of just who I was and people saw that. …
So leadership is a large part of my purpose and I think the work that I do now in ministry is…just all that coming together. I write about race and reconciliation because I’m Black and female and a Christian who loves Jesus and because there’s a need for it. I care about human trafficking because I understand the history of being Black and coming to America and a lot of people don’t know it’s still going on and know that people are still being bought and being used and being worked and not getting the benefits and fruit of that labor. I cannot not respond to that given my history… So what I do, to me, just feels very much like a calling and a passion but it feels very natural.
What do you think of the church’s involvement in some of these issues, like women in leadership or social justice in regards to human trafficking? Is the church behind or is the church where it needs to be on these issues?
I think the answer is always going to be “yes” and “amen.” One thing people say about the Reformation [is that] the church is always reforming herself—I mean, it should be, we hope she is. I think for me, especially as I reflect and look back on 2016, the church has been very disappointing to the point of being hurtful. I’m speaking specifically about the American church, and if I can [get] even more specific, the White Evangelical American church. Because there’s just been some inconsistency in the gospel that we are called to and the platforms and the ways that we’ve decided to take some public positions and I think that has been done with no concern or care for the other. In this case, I’m specifically thinking about women and people of color. So that has been something to lament and something to speak truth to and something to challenge and push back on.
I have often seen the complaint that sometimes Black men, when they get access, don’t necessarily reach alongside or behind them to pull Black women along.
And when White women get access, they’re not necessarily bringing women of color along behind them as well. As a part of my discipleship, sometimes when I’m just having dinner table conversations with people or phone conversations with people, one of the things I start talking to people (and I’m talking about adults) about is learning to manage our expectations. I think there’s some level of maturity that comes with that. You don’t settle for where you are but you don’t set your sights so high that you’re just disappointed all the time. And yet, you can say this is the reality and this is what my responsibility or my role is to play in moving us forward, whatever that is in your ministry context.
I learned years ago—I don’t know how long ago but it’s been a while—that I will not feel at home on this side of Heaven. My best hope is that I can see glimpses of Heaven in the Body of Christ and in the church. That is my best hope. Most times that can be disappointing because I’m always the one saying we can do better, and we should not passively say that and we should, should, should should, should—we should be intentional about being better as the Body of Christ, as a light, as a city set on a hill, as people can see our good works and glorify our Father in Heaven as being a united body to let people know that Jesus was indeed sent, according to John 3:17.
I’m always challenging and wrestling in myself and challenging the church locally and in my writing, you know: “we’re better than that.” If Jesus is who he says he is and if we have the power of the Holy Spirit that we claim we do, we can, we have the ability, we have the freedom to respond differently and be better than this. When I think about [it] specifically as a woman who has the gift of leadership—and I can go even more specifically to your question—a Black woman that has the gift of leadership, what I have realized, my reality, and I think the reality for a lot of us, is that the traditional model of how we lead specifically in the church, and I would say in how we serve the kingdom and advance the mission that is the gospel may not work for us. So if that is the case, then what is it that God is calling me to create where I can honor the call that’s on my life, and exercise the gifts that Jesus has given me and still somehow be a part of the body and not rejected?
For me, that is starting a nonprofit and writing books and creating opportunities for all people really, but specifically for people who have not always had equal opportunity and access. So I think women, because we’re smart and we’re innovative and we’re creative—I’m not waiting for somebody to validate my leadership. That was done before I really even knew Jesus. That was already validated. I’m not looking for people to validate. I’m looking for people who see it to partner, and if you’re not gonna see it and partner, then get out the way.
What do you think holds some White-led Christian institutions back from embracing genuine diversity? Is it fear? Complacency?
I think some of those things are at play for sure, but when you start talking about institutions and systems and structures and that conversation goes into power, [then] that conversation is [totally] connected to money. So I think that—and I’m just going to be honest because I just turned 38 and I’m very much about “I have work to do.” I don’t have time to sugarcoat stuff that much anymore. I think what the Bible is clear about is you cannot serve God and serve money. The Bible is also very clear that being a disciple of Christ is going to cost you something and a lot of times what that cost is, is you losing something that’s very near and dear. It could be family. It could be position and title. It could be an earthly inheritance. It could be your reputation and your good name. It could be all of those things.
The bigger question, I think, what’s happening here is we’re asking people to push the envelope. We’re asking people to reset things, because some of these structures, they need complete dismantling. What we have to understand is we’re asking people to take huge risks to potentially lose a lot of money, to destroy an institution. So the question is, why would they do that? So the cost of Christ, the conviction of the Holy Spirit, the worship of God has to be weightier, it has to be heavier than what they will lose, which is the worship of the money and the things that we know we’ll lose if we truly follow. I think when we’re talking about institutions…people are not willing to take those levels of risk. Yes, fear and all that is a part of it, but I think at the end of the day, it’s a conversation about money. Even if a pastor takes a stand to preach a hard message on Sunday morning and there’s a [flight], well when the people go, their money goes with them. The church has bills and your salary has to get paid. I think that’s just a practical truth that we have to wrestle with.
I’m not sure I can say that it’s just money that keeps some Christian denominations and even evangelical publications from embracing diversity.
I don’t know a nicer way to say it other than to say there’s a slothfulness, just laziness. One of my words that I use in work, in ministry, in life is “intentional.” My book [is titled] Mentor for Life: Finding Purpose Through Intentional Discipleship because I don’t feel like in the church, in my life of being in the church and being connected to pastors and leaders, that discipleship happens actively. Your church doesn’t make disciples passively. You have to take intentional action.
I’ve had conversations with some editors and people in publishing positions at, not just magazines, but publishing houses, and all these people I’m having conversations with are White. So I say to these people, I have said to them and I’m saying to you now…there are people of color, many of us, who can write well and who have a theological understanding, that are seminary-trained and even some of them that have the right degrees and credentials to edit. Now the fact that you haven’t done the work to seek them out, you have to take some responsibility for that because you cannot say, “I don’t know any.” So part of that is they don’t have friends that are diverse, and again, I’ve had these conversations so I know that. But then when you have friends, even if we’re just [on] social media, you’re online friends, we’re an afterthought because we’re not a part of your day-to-day life, so we’re not a part of your day-to-day priority.
So you put something out and then you get a lot of backlash from it and then you come to us after the fact and say, “Oh, I’m sorry what did I do bad?” And we should have been at the forefront of that and we should have been at the table when you had those conversations, when you made those decisions, before you put that thing out there that’s gonna set something in motion that’s going to be in place for 10 or 15 years to your detriment.
What I said, and this is one editor in particular, I said to him, because there was a theological conversation [with him] saying, “Well we have a certain theological bend.” I said, “Well there are certain seminaries that have the same theological bend.” So maybe a first step would be to send an email or make a phone call to those seminaries and ask, because the professors at the seminaries know who the people of color are. They know the people of color who were writing well and [are] thoughtful and they can even match you with people who care about the same things that your publication cares about, that your publishing house is trying to get out. But that’s going to require a little bit of effort on your part to ask those questions, to engage in those conversations.
I just don’t know another way to say it. It’s just lazy to say that there aren’t… You can’t hire any people of color who are editors? Really? A lot of the people that you have as editors don’t have the credentials like the people of color that I know have and are not getting paid the thousands that your people are getting paid. It’s just problematic on a lot of levels.
I know discipleship is obviously a major issue for you as well. Why is discipleship so important?
We have a lot of great programs, we have a lot of good activities and things but then if you ask the question, “Are we making disciples?” The pastor needs to be able to answer that. The Bible study teacher needs to be able to answer that. The parent needs to be able to answer that. The person who just showed up on Sunday morning needs to be able to answer that. I would submit that most believers today in America cannot answer that. That is our problem. That ultimately is our problem, because if there is not any intentionality, and if there’s not a way that we teach, preach, model, train people to follow this Jesus holistically so that it infuses every area of our lives and every relationship and every choice, then we’re not going to get the justice fight right. We’re not going to get the women’s rights, equality thing right and we’re not going to get a pro-life ethic from the womb to the tomb literally right and we’re not going to get racial reconciliation or justice or care for the poor or the widow or the orphan or adoption [right].
None of that is going to happen long-term because—guess what? The enemy is very serious about his mission. He will follow through. So we know if there’s going to be any light shining in the darkness, if there’s going to be any truth spoken to power, if there’s going to be any love that brings healing and redemption and kindest, then we have to consistently and persistently follow through on this discipleship life. Out of that has birthed the long-term fight, if you will, because it is a spiritual war and fight in these other areas. Otherwise, the best we’re doing is putting band-aids on problems that were here before we got here and will be here after we leave, if Jesus doesn’t come back first.
